Just a quick note about Gothard.
Yesterday’s post may have left you wondering what I really do think about Gothard, whether I consider him a false teacher, and so on and so forth.
The answer is, I don’t know.
I attended Gothard’s seminars as an early teen who had serious issues with law and grace. In many ways, I was living as one of the foolish Galatians, bewitched to think that having been saved by grace, I now needed to be made right by good works.
While I did not hear the message of grace in Gothard’s teaching, that is not to say that it was not there. At that point in my life, I was eager for rules to follow to make myself perfect–I probably would have ignored the message of grace if Gothard had presented it.
Even if I did hear it then, my memory is faulty and it has been years since I attended a Gothard seminar.
I have often mused to myself or to others that I’d like to go back to a seminar again, to hear it with new ears and be able to actually evaluate it. Unfortunately, the others who I’ve asked to go with me were more scarred than I by their first experiences with Gothard (that is, of having to sit in a seminar for long hours with little sensory input.)
I have not been back to a Gothard seminar since the summer where God changed my life by changing my view of justification. I have never been to a Gothard seminar since my heart became tuned to the rhythms of grace.
Which means I can really offer no commentary at all on Gothard’s teaching. I don’t know. In a very real sense, I’ve never heard Gothard–at least, never through glasses unsmudged by desperate longing for perfection through works.
So…Anybody wanna meet me at a Gothard seminar? I’m still looking for someone to go with me. I’m willing to travel anywhere. :-)
I’ve never been to one and I am not acquainted with his teachings. One thing that put me off, though, was how people I knew who did follow his teachings seemed to be totally immersed in them — they seemed to talk of nothing else and to quote him more than their Bibles, which made me wary, but may not have had anything to do with him.
I haven’t heard any Gothard stuff myself, but I’ve gotten a bad impression of him from somewhere.
I hear what Barbara is saying, and think, “That’s how it seems with people who like Joyce Meyer, too.” It’s all they talk about.
To add a few more names to the list, my church has a lot of John MacArthur fans who speak as though everything MacArthur says is God’s gospel truth. Many of the kids in the college ministry I was involved with were obsessed with John Piper. When I was in Junior High I knew a lot of people who hung on every word Kenneth Copeland or Kenneth Hagin said. And don’t even get me started on Beth Moore.
I think I tend to be a lot more critical of a teacher if I’ve already met an enthusiast. While I know of a lot of Gothard enthusiasts (and I remember vaguely hearing a story at a Gothard seminar about a man who went off into the woods with his Bible and his basic life seminar textbook to get his life together), I don’t know that I’ve actually met a Gothard enthusiast.
I went to the seminars I attended with my church, but even our pastors were not true Gothard believers. They thought that he had good stuff, but they were definitely plenty critical of some of the stuff he said.
I’m laughing about the guy going off in the woods. (We were out of town last week so I’m playing catch up with my Google Reader and this is the first of your posts which popped up so I’ll have to see what sparked this conversation a bit later.) In the meantime though, I’m quite familiar with Gothard. =) But it has been several years since I’ve been to one of his seminars. I was not in ATI but immersed into it in an interesting way.
The long and short of it is – I think we’re oh so tempted to saint people and scramble after them to our detriment. As you pointed out, we can follow anyone over Christ if we’re not careful and everyone has their particular faults. Doug Wilson, John MacArthur, Mark Driscoll, Josh Harris all come to mind. Each have their own bent and can cause others to bend in the same direction. I don’t think they always mean to but it is a danger.
Gothard IS very legalistic. I liked his teachings for much the same reasons you did. I like rules. I like knowing them so that I can follow them. To the letter. Grace!? Who needs it?!? I’ve followed the law perfectly therefore I am not in need of grace. (Yeah, I have this sin problem…) I think he encourages people to be too legalistic in their approach to pretty much everything in life. The flip side of that is that his seminar was actually quite helpful to me in the way I was relating to my parents at the time. So I cannot discount the use of his message. But I do think he browbeats people with his idea of what scriptures say. Since I apparently respond to the sledge hammer approach, this worked for me (for a time) but I would say on the whole he’s too far gone with rules and regs which we are not scripturally bound to.
He’s an interesting discussion, that’s for sure!
Oh, man, so much I could say.
When my family was going to Gothard seminars, I was too little to have a clue about what was going on, so really I have no firsthand opinion of his seminars. My sister (10 years older than me), on the other hand, would have a very definite opinion; and you can bet your bottom dollar it would be negative. But then again, she has a lot of negative things to say about ALL of the church experiences my parents were having back in those days. Long story…
However, we do have some Gothard material that I really, REALLY appreciate, particularly the Character Sketches books. I’ve gone through Volume One with my boys one year for homeshcool; and this year, Josiah is going through Volume Two on his own. I don’t agree with every single little thing mentioned in those books, but I do appreciate the character traits they present and the unique stories they pull out of the Bible, some of which Josiah had never heard before (and he is well-versed in the Bible, believe me). We have some of the other books, too…like The Pineapple Story and The Eagle Story. I think there is lots of truth in those, and I can definitely apply those principles to life and appreciate the way they help shape my sons’ (and my own!) character. That doesn’t mean I would apply those principles in the same way that Gothard (or a diehard Gothard fan) would though.
I always appreciate the discussions you get into, Rebekah; and the comments from others provide good food for thought, too! :)